I recently finished CLANDESTINE, by one of my favorite authors, Julia Ross (aka Jean Ross Ewing). As usual I adored her lush, poetic prose, the depth of her characterizations, the intrigue and the elegant sensuality.
CLANDESTINE is set in 1829, near the end of Prinny’s reign as George IV. I haven’t discovered a name for this period that is used in conjunction with 19th romance novels, which are usually categorized either Regency or Victorian. Some of the details, such as women’s clothing, are different and there are subtle social changes evident, yet a lot of it still feels “Regency.” One of my favorite romances ever, Laura Kinsale’s FLOWERS FROM THE STORM, is also set in this time period.
I find the period between 1820-1830 interesting to read. I would also like someday to write stories for the foundlings from LADY DEARING’S MASQUERADE. Since the oldest of the foundlings would only be 17 in 1820 I am clearly headed for that date range and beyond.
I have to admit I’m ambivalent about the Victoria era. Some aspects of Victorian womanhood really bother me: “chloroform and forceps” childbirth, corseting that pierces internal organs (thereby unfairly giving all corsets a bad name). On the other hand, it is the time of the Brontes and I’ve also enjoyed modern romance novels set in that time period such as Kinsale’s SHADOW AND THE STAR and Judith Ivory’s SLEEPING BEAUTY.
For me, the Victorian romance works if the characters don’t form a life that is typically Victorian. If they end up somewhat on the edge of society or living a rather Bohemian lifestyle, I can imagine them happy much more so than if they toe the line. It’s different from a Georgian or a Regency in which I can accept (but don’t require) that the couple’s marriage be fully accepted within society.
At the other end of the Regency we have Georgian novels. When I was reading Georgette Heyer as a kid I knew her books had varied settings but at the time I didn’t put them in categories marked “Georgian” or “Regency.” It wasn’t until I started writing my own Regencies that I discovered the official Regency was 1811-1820 or that Jane Austen started writing well before that time. Now I’m glad to see more Georgian-set novels coming out, because I enjoy them and also because I have a few (still very embryonic) ideas for Georgian-set romances myself.
So now to my survey:
1) When did you know the Regency was 1811-20? Is there a broader date range you consider the “Regency” in terms of the reading experience?
2) How do you feel about that period between the Regency and the Victorian (1820-1837)? Do you enjoy books set in that period?
3) Do you enjoy earlier Georgian-set romance?
4) What do you think of the Victorian era and Victorian-set romance?
Let me know what you think!
Elena
www.elenagreene.com
I LOVED Clandestine, but then I love all of Julia Ross’s books. *grin*
1) When did you know the Regency was 1811-20? Is there a broader date range you consider the “Regency” in terms of the reading experience?
Having grown up with what is clearly a more British outlook on history I knew from when I was young that the actual dates that their was a “Prince Regent” were 1811-1820, but those dates didn’t mean ANYTHING else to me. They simply don’t correspond in a reasoned way historically, politically, scientifically, philosophically, or even fashionably, to anything cohesive and distinct.
Historically those years are simply part of the Georgian era. You can call them “late Georgian”, Hanoverian, even Revolutionary. For me, the “Regency era” encompasses everything from either the year of the first Regency crisis (1788) or the French Revolution (1789) to either of the death of George IV (1830) or the Reform Bill (1832). These years do hang together in a distinctive and cohesive way.
2) How do you feel about that period between the Regency and the Victorian (1820-1837)? Do you enjoy books set in that period?
These years, the early part of the “the Romantic period” (roughly 1815-1850) are wonderful, IMO. I love films like Wives and Daughters and Children of the Century that take place in the late 1820s/early 1830s.
3) Do you enjoy earlier Georgian-set romance?
I write them, so I’d better. *grin* No, really. Many of my favorite romances are Georgian: Julia Ross’s The Seduction, Jo Beverley’s Malloren series, Georgette Heyer’s These Old Shades, Devil’s Cub, The Masqueraders, Faro’s Daughter, The Black Moth, and The Talisman Ring.
4) What do you think of the Victorian era and Victorian-set romance?
I can’t say I’m big on it, but if my favorite authors were writing it, I’d read it. I love Jane Feather’s Victorian books.
1) When did you know the Regency was 1811-20? Is there a broader date range you consider the “Regency” in terms of the reading experience?
I think I first knew the precise dates of the political Regency a year or two after I started reading Regencies. Of course, in many areas (architecture, art, etc) the term “Regency” is used more broadly, and I think I knew that sooner.
For me as a reader, I think anywhere between 1795 and 1830 or so feels Regency. (For one thing, I want an empire gown, or something similar, for it to feel Regency. So even 1830 might be pushing it.)
2) How do you feel about that period between the Regency and the Victorian (1820-1837)? Do you enjoy books set in that period?
I like them fine… Though I confess, if I read a book set in 1835 and I don’t see a single detail that wouldn’t have been true for 1815, I become distracted by wondering why the author didn’t set it during the Regency. 🙂
3) Do you enjoy earlier Georgian-set romance?
Oh, very much. When I started writing, I would have gone Georgian rather than Regency if it had been as big a market. To start with, the Regency used to not be so popular, so it was hard when I started out to find good research books! Everything was about the 18th century or the Victorians, or so it seemed…
Plus, I’ve always loved the colors of the 18th century… The wit, the literature, the opulence… I love Heyer’s THESE OLD SHADES, THE CONVENIENT MARRIAGE, THE MASQUERADERS, and Veryan’s Golden Chronicles, and Sheridan and Johnson all those folks.
The romantics during the Regency could be so serious, so fake, so silly and yet so grave, all at the same time…
4) What do you think of the Victorian era and Victorian-set romance?
I have read very little, but I’m definitely open to it. I guess I would expect a Victorian romance not to be about the aristocracy, but about more middle-class characters. I grew up on books like A LITTLE PRINCESS and LITTLE WOMEN and E. Nesbit’s books and such, so I have no trouble liking things from the period.
I do think the Victorian Age in some ways just defies understanding — and that’s what makes it fascinating. Women in some ways were at a low point of power — very constricted, by corsets and laws and customs — but they were also making progress on education and such. They were supposed to be tiny, waifish things who fainted all the time, were passive and supportive and decorative, marrying much older husbands who were like fathers — and yet they went about in huge skirts which took up a *lot* of room…and anyone who has seen a teen boy stick out his legs on a bus and take up the space of eight knows that He Who Takes Up Much Room is usually a person of power.
Fascinating.
Cara
1) When did you know the Regency was 1811-20? Is there a broader date range you consider the “Regency” in terms of the reading experience?
I couldn’t have cited the specific dates until I started writing seriously in 2001, even though I’d been reading Regencies since the 80’s. And there’s definitely a broader date range I consider Regency as a reader–my mental Regency is basically Jane Austen, women in high-waisted dresses, and men fighting Napoleon. (As a writer, I think of anything post-Waterloo as “the boring bit after the war was over,” but as a reader I’m more flexible and have plenty of late-Regency, postwar favorites.)
2) How do you feel about that period between the Regency and the Victorian (1820-1837)? Do you enjoy books set in that period?
I have no interest in writing it myself (unless my late 18th century and Regency characters insist upon having interesting children), but I’m certainly open to it as a reader. It’s not a corner of history that fascinates me, though.
3) Do you enjoy earlier Georgian-set romance?
Absolutely! It’s a fascinating part of history, and the clothes are gorgeous. What’s not to like? (Other than powdered hair–I’ll never understand why that became fashionable and stayed so as long as it did.)
4) What do you think of the Victorian era and Victorian-set romance?
I have some Victorian favorites as a reader (Gaffney’s TO LOVE AND TO CHERISH comes to mind), but in general I don’t like them as much as Georgians or Regencies. It feels more constricted and repressive (and I hate the clothes). Also, in a way it’s too modern–you’re getting into steamships and railroads and so on, which for me are less appealing that tall ships, horses, candlelight, and so on. In fact, I think that’s one of the biggest reasons I find the Regency specifically appealing–modern enough to be approachable, but low-tech.
I’m more interested in the American 19th century than the British for some reason. Not that America was any more low-tech except along the frontiers, but I guess it’s that Britain was on top of the world then while America was still a work-in-progress.
Basically, as a reader I’ll try almost anything. As a writer, my interests are much more narrow, because I have to love the time and place enough to immerse myself in it for months and years rather than just visiting for a few days.
I love Julia Ross. Clandestine was wonderful.
1) When did you know the Regency was 1811-20? Is there a broader date range you consider the “Regency” in terms of the reading experience? ummm, today
2) How do you feel about that period between the Regency and the Victorian (1820-1837)? Do you enjoy books set in that period? a good book is a good book. I want the period to come alive in a book. The Victorian period is really fascinating. I love history and I especially love te history of the disenfranchised. The women movement was an important part of the era. It was the industrial era.
3) Do you enjoy earlier Georgian-set romance? Easily my favorite period of time. I love manly men wearing wigs, heels, patches, and swords. Some of my favorite Heyer novels are her Georgian novels.
4) What do you think of the Victorian era and Victorian-set romance? It depends on the book. One of my favorite writers is M.M. Kaye; Her books are set in Victorian India. Love, Love them.
I have to admit I didn’t know the technical Regency dates until 2001. I don’t mind historicals in any period, although I have to admit to hesitating a smidge more when picking up a non-Regency. But like you, I love Kinsale, Ivory and Ross, so I’m okay with any and all periods.
My problem with any period is when the writer just picks the highlights, and spotlights the cliches of the period: For Georgian times, the men in makeup and high heels, for Regency times, Almack’s and the dampened muslins, for Victorian the overly-uptight attitudes and emphasis on Victoria.
1) Well, I guess I figured it out somewhere soon after I started reading romances/historicals. My first couple of romances were Sandra Brown contemps, then years later I picked up my next romance and it was Lisa Kleypas. . . after that I actually *really* started reading romances, but never knew anything about periods. I just always had a thing for England and looked for historicals in England. Then I must have looked around on the net and then somewhere along the way I discovered there were periods and all, and from there I saw many of the books I was getting were set in this thing called the Regency period and I was enjoying them more. Oh, and I’m not even sure if I knew who Jane Austen was before reading Regencies because we simply never did anything with her in any of the classes I took.
I guess my officially, unofficial dates for the period is from the French Revolution to when Victoria comes on the scene, even though I know those last years would be incorrect because it’s William who’s King (I think? LOL) Something like that.
2) LOL See the end of the first question. . . and yep 🙂
3) You know, I’m not all that sure on how many, if any books from early Georgian I have. . . and since I don’t have Lord Sin, so I can’t count that one yet. LOL 🙂
4) Well, the funny thing is I grew up loving England, and two out of three of my biggest influences were Mom’s love of A Christmas Carol and Sherlock Holmes, which are pretty big in Victorian England, I do believe. LOL But once I started reading Regencies, one of the biggest reasons I love them more and have vastly more of them than Victorians is because there are practically no reminders of modern life in them. You pick up a Victorian, you might see photography, or trains, stuff like that. I like it without.
But that’s definitely not to say whatsoever that I don’t read them, I have plenty that I read and enjoyed.
However the clothes are a heck of a lot nicer looking in the Regency period than Victorian. 😉 (heck, sometimes even a lot nicer than today!)
Lois
Some of the Victorian clothes are quite nice, IMO. I have a big thing for the fashions c. 1875-1882, the era of the “Natural Forma”. The bodices are fitted, and drape in a Princess line down over the hips. There’s a small bustle to the gown, but no hoops or actual bustle pad. I think these gowns are gorgeous!
When did you know the Regency was 1811-20? Is there a broader date range you consider the “Regency” in terms of the reading experience?
Last year. 🙂 That’s when I first started writing fiction seriously. I consider the entire Georgian period as the Brits use it to be the Regency. The history, culture, clothes, society–it all comes together as a cohesive unit.
2) How do you feel about that period between the Regency and the Victorian (1820-1837)? Do you enjoy books set in that period?
I would put it under the Regency umbrella, too, though towards the latter part of the period 1835 onwards, you definitely see elements of Victoriana creeping in.
3) Do you enjoy earlier Georgian-set romance?
Absolutely! I love reading them. I haven’t studied it enough to write in it as yet. For now, I’m sticking to the strict 1811-1820 period.
4) What do you think of the Victorian era and Victorian-set romance?
I like Jane Feather’s and Amanda Quick’s novels set in there. As a reader, I cautiously like it. I’m currently watching North & South with Richard Armitage, and I’m trying to wrap my mind around the Industrial Revolution. However, I admit, I much like the pre-industrial eras much more. I’d rather go medieval than Victorian in my writing.
I was about 9 or 10 when I first picked up a Regency, and had no clue about the history or years or anything. 🙂 But they inspired me to look into the era and read some non-fiction, for which I’m eternally grateful!
I love Georgian-set books, and have found some Victorians I like (also love actual Victorian novels, like the Brontes and George Eliot and Dickens).
I’m so glad you enjoyed CLANDESTINE, ladies. Thank you! I believe the late 1820’s were incredibly romantic. Perhaps not as well suited for “comedy of manners” romances as the true Regency, but wonderful years for passionate, dramatic adventure. Just think of the exotic places around the world that English gentlemen were beginning to explore — adventures that would have been almost impossible during the Napoleonic years — which is great hero material IMO. Then there’s the conflict in values between the coming Victorian era and the hedonistic habits of the old aristocracy. Times were indeed changing in fascinating ways, yet much of the atmosphere still feels “Regency” — lots of glitter and elegance, with the worst excesses of the Industrial Revolution still in the future. The Georgian period of the 1760’s is equally fascinating to me as a writer. It was so over-the-top in fashion and display, yet men could be so very, very dangerous. I’m not so keen on the true Victorian era — I’d rather have horses than trains — yet in the hands of fabulous authors like Judith Ivory or Laura Kinsale any period is fine by me. I’d love to know what more readers think.
Julia
http://www.juliaross.net
Clandestine was gorgeous, inside and out.
To be absolutely honest, I didn’t give thought to years as cut-off dates until I joined The Beau Monde. I’ve always thought of books and art defining the time period and not vice versa. For instance, the differing attitudes in Emma as opposed to Middlemarch told me pretty much what I needed to know.
I LOVE stories.Love historical detail that gives me insight into the time. I love Georgians, Regencies, and Victorians,(especially U.S.-set) and would love to experience some Edwardians!
I’m currently fleshing out a plot in my Regency-set paranormal series. A Jules Verne-esque time-traveler, who looks a lot like Richard E. Grant, came to me and showed me an entire scene were he travels back to 1812-14 and meets my heroine. Not the book I was planning next, but it is now! What a fun way to play the major changes seen in less than a century off each other. *Rubs hands together.*
PS Just to clarify, I mean defining the period to me as a contemporary reader.
1) When did you know the Regency was 1811-20? Is there a broader date range you consider the “Regency” in terms of the reading experience?
I’m sure I didn’t know until I started writing Regency. I only had the vaguest knowledge of the history of the time period, coming directly from the Regency novels I was reading. But once I decided to write in the period, I read Our Tempetuous Day by Carolly Erickson, and learned so much more than I had known before.
I’m not a Historian so I really don’t know enough to separate the time periods. I think anything from , maybe 1790 to 1830 feels Regency to me.
2) How do you feel about that period between the Regency and the Victorian (1820-1837)? Do you enjoy books set in that period?
As I’ve said before, I’m the world’s worst read romance author, so I’m not sure what I’ve read in that period. I enjoyed Flowers From the Storm very much, but never really read much more of Kinsale.
3) Do you enjoy earlier Georgian-set romance?
Some of them. These Old Shades and Devil’s Cub were not my favorite Heyers, but I liked Faro’s Daughter.
If the heroes are powdering their hair and wearing make-up and colorful brocades and lace, shiny bejeweled buckles on their shoes, then I am just not captivated. (but I’m certain I’ll love Kalen’s Lord Sin)
4) What do you think of the Victorian era and Victorian-set romance?
I was never in love with the Brontes or Dickens. And some of the Victorican movies are just depressing to me. As a kid, I LOVED Gaslight, but now I think it is just depressing.
When the trains run and steamships and houses are lit by gaslight, it just isn’t as romantic as coaches and tall ships and candlelight.
I can’t stand the whole societal view of women in the Victorian period. And the fashions…Again, I just can’t get excited by a man in muttonchop sideburns and plaid suits.
Encouraging to see how many of us are open to reading about times pre and post the actual Regency.
I’m so glad you stopped by, Julia. Many of us will follow you into any historical setting you choose. I especially like what you said about the late 1820’s being an adventurous time period. I have already been thinking one of my foundling characters will want to be an explorer when he grows up.
Don’t ask me this question because I will always promote the Victorian era over the Regency/Georgian. *ggg* How can you not love an era where women had much more freedom than what hadn’t been seen since the days of Queen Bess? I’m alwaya manic when whenever someone brings up the stereotypes of the Victorian era because we still–even long-time social historicans–cannot makes heads nor tails of the era because Freud has colored our view of life since the 1920s.
If the Victorian era was so horrible, why were all of the laws which enfranchised nearly all men, as well as laws that protected women’s independence and their rights to their children, get passed in this era? I’m standing on my soapbox, but the Victorian era gets a decidedly bad rap that I hope to disprove *G* Plus–corsets and frou-frou are infinitely more sensual than high-waists and stays!
CONGRATULATIONS to Diane for sweeping the list of finalists in the Regency category of the National Readers’ Choice Awards with three–yes, folks, that’s THREE–books: A Reputable Rake, A Twelfth Night Tale, and The Wagering Widow. NRCA is organized by the Oklahoma RWA chapter.
1) I consider it more 1800-1820. And yes, I welcome a broader range.
2) I like early Victorian books too, when Vicki was intent on seeing those around her as happily married as she was. It makes a good plot point.
3) Do you enjoy earlier Georgian-set romance? I adore them!! Particularly when set in Bath.
4) What do you think of the Victorian era and Victorian-set romance? I’ll read these too. Those Victorians were all proper on the outside and steamy on the inside. But then, I love vampire stories and they are best in that era.
Camilla,
There were a lot of trends and counter-trends going on during the Victorian era so it could be interesting. Some of my attitude is probably colored by the fact that I’ve done too much reading about the history of childbearing. The idea that women were embarrassed to appear in public pregnant and had to hide away, for instance, just bothers me. If I wrote something Victorian I’d definitely explore some of the counter-trends and more progressive things going on during the era.
As for Victorian design (of clothing and interiors too) I hope we can agree to disagree. 🙂
Some of it is pretty but I generally prefer the more classic and elegant lines of earlier eras.
Elena wrote:
1) When did you know the Regency was 1811-20? Is there a broader date range you consider the “Regency” in terms of the reading experience?
I think I learned the (strict) dates from my girlfriend who wrote Regencies. I was in a general way aware of the broader Regency as a transition period between the Georgian and Victorian eras. For me, most things from the French Revolution up until about 1830 feel pretty Regency to me.
2) How do you feel about that period between the Regency and the Victorian (1820-1837)? Do you enjoy books set in that period?
Yes, I do. I really enjoyed the Julian Kestrel mysteries of Kate Ross, which are set in the 1820s. They feel pretty Regency to me, though. 🙂 It’s sad that there will be no more. 🙁 I’ve read a few other books during that period, too, though off-hand I’m not thinking of any romances.
3) Do you enjoy earlier Georgian-set romance?
Absolutely! The Georgian period–and the 18th century enlightenment in general–is a fascinating time. All the amazing people who lived then, the growth of learning and culture, and the elegant artistic style and craftsmanship. In fact, if it weren’t for the stupid wigs and hair powder and the lack of antibiotics I wouldn’t mind living then. Much. 🙂
4) What do you think of the Victorian era and Victorian-set romance?
I think we mostly tend to focus on the differences between the Victorian period and now, but in many ways it was very similar. The modern social pattern was set then: dominated by the middle class, mostly living in nuclear families and working outside the home, rapid transportation (rail and steam ships) and communications (telegraph and later telephone), the beginning of consumer society, widespread primary and higher education, etc., etc. Of course, some things were very different–the status of women, in particular. Living required more labor than now, but its pattern wasn’t that different.
Perhaps because it is so similar to now, I don’t find the Victorian era especially “romantic.” But that’s a minor thing, really; I mean, by that standard there could be no such thing as contemporary romance, right? I haven’t read too many Victorian romances, but I’ve read a lot of other books set during that era, especially mysteries. (I think because the mystery novel was basically invented during that period, it still feels particularly “mysterious”. Plus, with no fingerprints and DNA evidence, mysteries depend more on the cleverness of the detective.)
Todd-who-still-wants-his-antibiotics-and-Internet-access
CONGRATULATIONS to Diane for sweeping the list of finalists in the Regency category of the National Readers’ Choice Awards
Yes, mega congrats, Diane!!!!!
Cara